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<font size="4" face="Arial">Ummm, depends on what your idea of "real music" is. In many forms of "real music", being a great musician is all it's about. Chet Atkins wouldn't have been the legend he is if he wasn't a great musician.Quote:
Originally posted by Raiven:
No they aren't the greatest musicians in the world.. never claimed to be, but when did that ever matter in real music?..
<font color="#FF0000"><font size="1">[ August 03, 2005 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Raiven ]</font></font>
That is a very sound analogy. There is also another point that seems to be prevelent when you read back through these posts. Re The Pistols. Regardless of whether they played on the album Lydon defo, Jones defo, Cook dunno, and I though Glen Matlock was still in the band when the album was actually cut. If that is true then he definitely played on it as he was a solid bass player. If Sid was already present by then, probably not. However the thing that defines the Pistols sound is Lydons voice (who else sounds like him) and Jonesys guitar sound. Any pair of half decent numptys could have whacked along on the bass and drums.
I think it is fair to say that you can be influential, even a legend without being great.
I think Crue prove that by the simple fact that they are still here and still loved.
The Pistols were not great musicians either, but they are still loved and certainly a bigger and more infulential legend in the history of rock music.
My intital point on this thread was that ceratin memebers of Crue get above their station when it comes to their musical competence. TL is not Dave Grohl or Trent Reznor and Nikki Sixx is about as bog standard as it gets. What they were, was a couple of handsome charismatic Muthafuckers who made up for in charm what they lacked in ability. Nothing wrong with that just so long as you know it yourself. And there in lies the problem.
Carl my friend. I would argue right back at you how wrong you are about this statement. While you are correct that not many "average joes" knew who the Dolls were, many aspiring musicians did. Many aspiring punks who saw them play in the UK before punk broke there. Steve Jones admitted he copped every move he had from Johnny Thunders. So when you insuate that the Dolls really didn't matter in the history of music, I feel that statement is a gross injustice to a band that help start a whole movement. Not to mention they were wildly ahead of their time image wise. Just because a band is not widely well known does not discount their importance in musics history.
For the record. Glen Matlock did not play bass on "Never Mind The Bollocks" Steve Jones did. Watch the Classic Albums DVD. On that disc it gives you all the details that are commonly mistaken in the public domain.
As for Tommy Lee. I think he's a great drummer in an average band with a bad ass image. I give him props for continuing to do what he wants to do. At least he's not like a lot of musicians from his era who just faded into oblivion or who are playing county fairs for the hundreth time. The song is okay for what it is "a pop song" and I know he worked with Butch Walker on one or two songs for his new CD.
<font size="4" face="Arial">Quote:
Oh, and I would argue a whole heck of alot about how much NY Dolls mattered in the history of music. I love 'em, but not many knew who the hell they were. They weren't exactly selling out stadiums.
<font size="4" face="Arial">Good to see someone else said the song was just OK.Quote:
As for Tommy Lee. I think he's a great drummer in an average band with a bad ass image. I give him props for continuing to do what he wants to do. At least he's not like a lot of musicians from his era who just faded into oblivion or who are playing county fairs for the hundreth time. The song is okay for what it is "a pop song" and I know he worked with Butch Walker on one or two songs for his new CD.
Sandy, I'll go along with you on that. But I am not so sure how irrelevant Dream Theater is. They helped to keep a certain style of music alive for a good many years there, Progressive Rock, and are probably the biggest band in that genre still working today. Did they inspire as many musicians? Directly, I would say more. Through the pipeline? No.
Andy McCoy is mentioned up there in comparison to Malmsteen. Well, Andy might not be able to play Classical as well, but Andy is hardly a slouch on guitar. In fact, the man is a REALLY good guitarist.
My main problem though is the train of thought that "good music isn't about talent", which is all wrong. It depends on what the music is, and talent does not take away from music. More bands with a TON of talent have effected the music world than no-talent hacks have.
Not listened to the song yet, if it's shit I will say it's shit. As for Tommy Lee he revolutionised the way drummers played drums and launched a million Tommy wannabe's myself included, I absolutely loved the way he played, all the tricks and the upfront style, I saw him and thought thats the way to go, why should singers and guitarists have all the attention. It's about entertainment and how can we start to analyse Motley Crue twenty odd years on, they had the right ingredients at the right time and we all fuckin loved it.
<font size="4" face="Arial">I actually hated them, and still do. But we are all here to talk about tunes, so I say let's keep analysing the heck out of them.Quote:
Originally posted by Bedlam:
...we all fuckin loved it.
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I do think everybody here is being WAY unfair to this tune though. After what Sandy said, I have no doubt that this was done with Butch or under his influence. It sounds too damn much like him to NOT be Butch.
This is apparently a glam rock site and I will freely admit that that their are not many musicians from that genre who have obviously not endeared themselves to you or anyone else that is looking for musical excellence, but seriously it wasn't about that. Lets face it Chet atkin's in Motley Crue? I think not..
But Tyla claims Chet to being a big influence, even played a Chet Gretsch for many years.
Many people here LOVE White Lion, and the song "Wait" created many guitarists in itself.
Van Halen is embraced by the Glam community, and Eddie could KIND OF play.
The 80's were full of flashy guitarists in so-called "Glam Bands". Mick Mars was not one of them though. Decent at best.
I only used Chet as an example of somebody who plays music beloved by MANY Rock and Roll guys, and yet whose entire play depended on his amazing skill on the guitar. Since the statement was "since when did talent have anything to do with REAL MUSIC". Many consider him to be the greatest that ever lived, and very few who play would argue that.
OK, think about this. How many guys in your town are great mucisians? probably lots. How many guys have that X factor rock star vibe?
The second group are usually not in the first group. Making it as a Rock star has very little to do with being a good musician. If you are hungry enough you will become a better musician. You cannot fake Charisma. Motely Crue. I rest my case.
<font color="#FF0000"><font size="1">[ August 04, 2005 10:59 AM: Message edited by: IH Rich Rags ]</font></font>
<font color="#FF0000" size="1">[ August 04, 2005 11:02 AM: Message edited by: IH Rich Rags ]</font>